tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post1708740043322237026..comments2023-10-28T06:59:59.028-07:00Comments on Squeezing the Hourglass: Morality is Reality, or, what it is is how it feelsDDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12936013880621794157noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-18748657090024265512016-10-05T07:04:58.696-07:002016-10-05T07:04:58.696-07:00It wouldn't shock me if morals developed as in...<i>It wouldn't shock me if morals developed as in your example, more or less as a way to ensure the long-term survival of the colony over specific individuals. And within that Aztec colony, as in ours, there are different types of ants, with different functions and different moral practices within their society and the larger world.</i><br /><br />If, like hairless moles, we are the only other fundamentally eusocial vertebrates - then our individualized politics and economics are fundamentally at odds with our nature, hence, fundamentally immoral.CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-63564593333802654862016-09-01T07:10:07.043-07:002016-09-01T07:10:07.043-07:00I knew you'd find something interesting!I knew you'd find something interesting!;)https://www.blogger.com/profile/18269204048805491152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-9439055968266773932016-09-01T05:43:44.626-07:002016-09-01T05:43:44.626-07:00Doesn't make it any less repulsive The
Evoluti...Doesn't make it any less repulsive <a href="http://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1004829&utm_source=Complexity+Digest&utm_campaign=64d684ba19-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f55ea67de1-64d684ba19-67226325" rel="nofollow">The<br />Evolutionary Origins of Hierarchy</a><br />CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-23898309904068284312016-08-30T19:02:20.463-07:002016-08-30T19:02:20.463-07:00Hell yeah cuz. Yer always thought provoken.Hell yeah cuz. Yer always thought provoken.John Kurmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04607323621206823686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-88653062931343322782016-08-30T11:50:42.271-07:002016-08-30T11:50:42.271-07:00Well, to be puckish comma you find the behavior of...Well, to be puckish comma you find the behavior of that upper caste deeply immoral. So according to this research you should also find it very dangerous. Even if it isn't. I am enjoying this discussion, I should post more!<br /><br />DD;)https://www.blogger.com/profile/18269204048805491152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-88586639846409215162016-08-30T11:46:39.144-07:002016-08-30T11:46:39.144-07:00My optimism hits a wall for a few reasons here.
F...My optimism hits a wall for a few reasons here.<br /><br />First, the transbiological psychological development redounding back from language IS very recent - at least at a mass scale.<br /><br />Second, the roles that language may be helping selected individuals to transcend biology/instinct ARE deeply (atavistically) embedded in most all these tribal human clines.<br /><br />Third, I don't think the traditional hive keepers/masters want any kind of mass transbiological development, given how well human instincts have served them traditionally in their capacity as human livestock managers.CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-5572954134301939682016-08-30T11:45:22.034-07:002016-08-30T11:45:22.034-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-7765662320598286002016-08-30T11:14:43.293-07:002016-08-30T11:14:43.293-07:00For race relations, I find this encouraging. If th...For race relations, I find this encouraging. If the roles are baked in the cake of being human, but the way we assign them is almost entirely arbitrary (across cultures, not within them,) then it's possible to change how these things are assigned. At least theoretically--I don't solve actual problems via the Internet. :)DDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12936013880621794157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-90385393156023627522016-08-30T10:49:36.479-07:002016-08-30T10:49:36.479-07:00Repulsive? Based on all of our organizational mode...Repulsive? Based on all of our organizational models as a species like, ever, I'd say it's obviously true and effective. On a species level, it's incredibly moral to maximize our perpetuation. The problem is when you don't personally identify with the goals of the species. As I've discussed in the past (as have you) individuation is an INCREDIBLY recent phenomenon in humans. Even today in most cultures it's last name first, first name last.<br /><br />What's repulsive to our moral sensibilities is the idea that arbitrary characteristics that don't in and of themselves provide any benefit are used to determine the various social castes. Race or education or phrenology or nationality, whatever. This is you logical mind saying that the methodologies used to sort the categories aren't beneficial.<br /><br />What I am guessing is that it doesn't matter how you organize the castes, as long as they exist. I'm speaking in regard to the larger society--obviously to the individual (or lower ranking subgroup) it matters quite a lot.DDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12936013880621794157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-84402596408103548212016-08-30T10:12:32.931-07:002016-08-30T10:12:32.931-07:00That's a downright repulsive though quite nove...That's a downright repulsive <i>though quite novel thought</i>, that human neurotypes reflect an evolutionarily stable differentiation required at the group level.<br /><br />Fits in very nicely with the accelerated genetic loci information published quite recently, which differentiates us from all other mammals.CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-20128996022334069412016-08-30T10:06:28.083-07:002016-08-30T10:06:28.083-07:00I believe you said it all in this post's title...I believe you said it all in this post's title. Morality/Reality is "how it feels". <br /><br />Human livestock managers have known and exploited this fact in various ways from time immemorial.<br /><br />The power of the Big Lie is not predicated on repetition having any impact on logic or ratiocination, rather, it's predicated on the dissociative, hypnotic effect of repetition on the emotions - which, in 99.7% of these humans - are developmentally arrested at around the age of seven. <br /><br />To your point re: rich vs. poor, not only does the feeling of trust break along class lines, feelings of empathy and altruism are also distinctive at various socio-economic levels - with the poor being notably more empathetic and altruistic toward one another and with the rich comprising a "breakaway" tribe of their own.CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-21090378392719274332016-08-30T09:54:24.964-07:002016-08-30T09:54:24.964-07:00Well, there's certainly no agreed upon moral f...Well, there's certainly no agreed upon moral firmament, so morality and market rebranding are synonymous to me.<br /><br />It wouldn't shock me if morals developed as in your example, more or less as a way to ensure the long-term survival of the colony over specific individuals. And within that Aztec colony, as in ours, there are different types of ants, with different functions and different moral practices within their society and the larger world.<br /><br />DDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12936013880621794157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-10821926389924129072016-08-30T09:35:49.216-07:002016-08-30T09:35:49.216-07:00This was me btw, different account.This was me btw, different account.DDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12936013880621794157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-33658652982119997482016-08-30T09:33:08.037-07:002016-08-30T09:33:08.037-07:00Cnu, my takeaway is that what we find immoral, we ...Cnu, my takeaway is that what we find immoral, we find dangerous. So if you perceive 'dressing like a thug' as immoral, you have a very strong inclination to see it as a genuine danger to society, and to view the actions of that individual through a threatening lens. <br /><br />If you perceive being an adult with "only" a minimum wage job as an indication of some lack of effort, character or intelligence, you will literally perceive that persons behavior as more dangerous than others. <br /><br />This wetware error seems to be one of the problems with racial policing writ large.<br /><br />Even the language we use conflates morality and actual objective potential outcomes. If you do something "wrong," it may be socially unacceptable, actually dangerous, or both. But we conflate the terms and their meanings in our minds.DDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12936013880621794157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-72495024360619039582016-08-30T09:04:23.481-07:002016-08-30T09:04:23.481-07:00Rich vs. poor my ass..., white vs. black since it&...Rich vs. poor my ass..., white vs. black since it's already an accepted tenet of American political canon that the negroe is not only morally reprobate, indeed, he/she is not even a conspecific given your neandertal/denisovan mixings and minglings.<br /><br />As for the specific case noted above, anyone with an even cursory familiarity with what "state custody" means, would know beyond any shadow of a doubt that the risk/hazard to which this nine year old girl would now be subject - just went through the roof. CNuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14152640304402402884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-63593979194300804352016-08-30T08:35:54.992-07:002016-08-30T08:35:54.992-07:00What's wild is how the morality controls the p...What's wild is how the morality controls the perception of risk, not the other way around. This is tribal lines redrawn: if someone is to be left behind in a future resource squeeze, cohesive, bourgeois morals will allow an "us v. them" separation, which is convenient for the rich people when they drop the poor as it becomes too expensive to support them. ;)https://www.blogger.com/profile/18269204048805491152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6482127507835282032.post-64116053579603747802016-08-30T07:27:38.412-07:002016-08-30T07:27:38.412-07:00Morality or market rebranding? Why are we concerne...Morality or market rebranding? Why are we concerned about risk and danger to children outside of the fact that we have been told predators are everywhere? Isn't it more a case of, as Mr. Nulan is wont to say, livestock management? Or rather, best practices thereto? <br /><br />Let me explain. The Aztecs, I am convinced, were a cannibal culture. There were simply no large food animals available in an extremely dense urban culture to provide protein to the citizenry - save Man. What better way to package the consumption of human flesh than through the morality of sacrifice? If blood and hearts are not given up, the Sun will die. If the Sun dies, we die. Besides, it is a waste to not use all that extra flesh, seeing as the gods only want the hearts, so...<br /><br />Cannibalism is more commonplace in human culture than most people are comfortable enough to admit. And, of course, there is metaphorical cannibalism in the form of human commodity for labor and work. If consumable resources are wasted or endangered, it is considered morally repugnant. The fact that the market campaign in the West (no doubt going all the way back to the Enlightenment and the Protestant Reformation) that fetishizes children has resulted in the fetishization of children should not come as a surprise. John Kurmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04607323621206823686noreply@blogger.com